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The Mighty Puck
2004-01-23 15:49:09
Cryptography Question

Ciphers and codes are of great importance during times of warfare. Consulates regularly exchange information with their governments in coded messages. The solution of the Enigma cipher led to Hitler's defeat in WWII. There is a large branch of research devoted to this study especially with issues of privacy on the Internet and its relation to cryptography. The simplest cipher is a substitution of one letter for another. For example:
SYSTEMS ANALYSIS
becomes
BKBXYLB RQRSKBPB

with a simple substitution of B for S, K for Y, etc. To make the following English message a bit harder to decode, the words are run together and the letters are grouped in blocks of five. punctuation has been added to help.

FMFPW HFNAN SMFTF TFZAS MNDNQ PZUPB TFIZJ
QFW.MZ JXTSS XZQRP ZKWPB WQXTP BPWNH HNPWF
PZFZS GWNAT AUZQH NPTZA FMFPW HFDQZ LSWH.P
BWISN FFTFN SFZXQ TPTAK TAPWA FTGW,H NRTAK
PBWIZ JQFWU QJFPQ NPTAK, WAKNK TAK,NA CIBNS
SWAKT AK.WAE ZMHWW PTAKZ PBWQF PJCWA PF.

what is the coded message?


i have absolutely no clue as to what the answer is, so don't ask. my friend gave this to me and after staring at it for an hour my head hurts, i thought i'd ask you all and see what you could make of it.

Captain Paradox
2004-01-25 10:50:23
Re: Cryptography Question

  You've probably figured this out by now, but try making all the "B"'s "S"'s, like in the first message. Try this for all the letters in the first message. It may help.

Alan
2004-01-25 18:22:21
Re: Cryptography Question

I beilieve I've seen this before. It was part of a message incoded on some famous cryptogropher's stone (Not to sure what type of stone, commemoration, tombstone etc) And to this day leading experts in the world have only decoded the first part. Then again I could be wrong and be thinking of something else.

cogitater
2004-01-28 02:40:21
Re: Cryptography Question

I don't have an hour to spend staring at it right now, but a basic cryptography course suggests you deal with substitution codes by counting the number of each of the letters in the message. It's been a while, so I've forgotten the statistics, but research has shown that certain letters are used a certain % of the time, ie e is used more than any other letter. t, a, s are high on the list. There is a chart setting all letters forth in their order of usage. After you've counted the letters in your message you attempt to correlate them with the statistical data. I.e. if z was used the most times, it is the likely substitute for e. You set up two parallel lines, the top one being the alphabet in its normal order and the second being the probable substitutions. The simplest codes involve shifting the second line right or left or reversing the alphabet etc. Book codes are more difficult unless you have some clues as to what lines in what book are used as a substitute alphabet. Completely random codes are the most difficult and are usually solved by trial and error process. Now that you are armed with all of this unrequested wisdom, go forth and solve your problem.

TomM
2004-01-31 01:20:07
Re: Cryptography Question

The most commonly used letters in American English are, (mostly)in order E, T, A, O, I, N, S, H, R, D, L, U.

For years the more "in the know" contestants who made it to the end of show bonus puzzle on Wheel of Fortune would choose as their "five consonants and a vowel" T, N, S, R, L (or occassionally D) and E. Later, those letters would become a given.

Captain Paradox
2004-02-01 13:55:15
Re: Cryptography Question

  Forgive me if I'm wrong, TomM, but I read somewhere that the most common letters in the English language are: E, T, A, O, N, R, I, S, H. Of course, they mnay be already outdated.

Orfeus
2004-02-02 10:10:30
Re: Cryptography Question

Well there is a method to solving this and cogitater mentioned the beginning, but that is usually not enough. Like in the case of the code above it is usual that two or even three letters in the code are represented equally so further analysis is needed (F and W here) - you see how often are they around other letters, make a table really because for example letter E can appear before or after any other letter really, while consonants like T rarely appear before or after B, D, G, J. Also once you are fairly certain which letter represents E you can see by looking which letter is most common before but almost never after E, that would represent H. Then it is more like guessing the words for starters, more difficult in this case since they have been grouped in fives.

Sam
2004-02-02 14:28:08
Re: Cryptography Question

Also the difficulty is much increased is the person deliberately misspelled the message. Simple substitutions like "taht" for "that," or throwing in a few numbers for letters, make automated decryptors very sad.

Chris
2004-03-16 10:38:18
Re: Cryptography Question

Try to find a logic realation between the letters have in your mind that in cryptography everything can be raplaced for exaple even space can be replaced with A.
Try to find some of the most common words in english in there and get the letters you need for exaple and, the, is e.t.c
I will try to find the answer and come back to you soon

Juggler
2004-05-04 17:42:31
Re: Cryptography Question

It's taken a while, but i finally have it, next time could you place it in the queue for us all to play with.

syste msana lysis isonl yapar tofth iscou
rse.yo uwill workt ogeth erwit hteam mates
tosol veani nform ation syste mspro blem.t
hecla ssisa lsowr iting inten sive,m aking
theco ursef rustr ating, engag ing,an dchal
lengi ng.enj oymee tingo thers tuden ts.

systems analysis is only a part of this course. you will work together with team mates to solve an information systems problem. the class is also writing intensive, making the course frustrating, engaging, and challenging. enjoy meeting other students.

Juggler

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