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A place to come and discuss the features of this site, as well as suggest/request additions and modifications. Oh yeah, and Bug reports too.
SilverKnight
2003-09-17 12:35:34
I propose a new problem category...

How about a category title,
"Problems which require absolutely no critical thought at all"?

This would contain problems such as Old MacDonald Had a Sequence, Words in Common 5, The Famous Horse, and Metaphysics...

And perhaps we could even "push" problems to this category on a separate schedule, so as not to impact the rate at which problems, which require a modicum of actual thought, actually get posted.

Any thoughts (sarcastic or otherwise)?

--- SK

Brian Smith
2003-09-17 14:20:32
Re: I propose a new problem category...

If there is a new category created, the problems in it need a good common thread like cryptography or algorithms. The problems you listed dont have very much in common with each other.

SilverKnight
2003-09-17 14:24:21
Re: I propose a new problem category...

LOL.... Brian you crack me up.

BTW, I think the title exactly describes the theme that they all share.

Gamer
2003-09-17 17:00:07
Re: I propose a new problem category...

Ummm... if no critical thought means easyness of the puzzles, only the famous Horse would work.

The easy problems are designated by their difficulty, and are pushed as stated.

SilverKnight
2003-09-17 17:13:16
Re: I propose a new problem category...

An interesting point... but no I was not referring to the difficulty rating of the problems. As I mentioned in a thread on one of those problems:
I can come up with an equally difficult problem of sequencing.... such as the third letter of the prime numbers starting from 13 and going up. But really... is that worth while?

...very difficult, virtually impossible to solve, and definitely not worth the attention it might get on this site.

Gamer
2003-09-17 18:16:35
Re: I propose a new problem category...

Be careful, I am reading your definition as "bad problems", and I feel that all above problems are fine.

As long as journeymen continue to remember that problems which are very obscure aren't good without proper hints, I don't think we will need that catergory.

Bryan
2003-09-18 13:12:12
Re: I propose a new problem category...

SK, I admit that Old MacDonald Had a Sequence is not a very good puzzle. I suppose I submitted it out of amusement that the sequence (derived from a sequence of numbers less esoteric as your proposed "third letter of primes starting at 13", but I see what you mean) resembled the children's song.

However, your criticism of WIC 5 as requiring no critical thought is demonstrably false. I included "horizontal" to help puzzlers look beyond simple letter substitutions, which are often the key to solving such puzzles, and in fact Happy used the word "midday" to figure out the solution, resulting in an "AHA!" experience. This is definitely not a you-either-get-it-or-you-don't puzzle.

If you find such problems "very difficult, virtually impossible to solve", maybe you will be happier sticking to puzzles that are more obviously left-brained. You'll be happy to know my next submission is more analytical in nature. However, it must be obvious to you from the comments of others that some people enjoy these problems, so I ask you kindly not to be a spoilsport.

BTW, love your avatar -- very aggro.

SilverKnight
2003-09-18 14:34:54
Re: I propose a new problem category...

wow.... aggro... good word!

Interesting that that's how you interpret it... :-) That's certainly not how it was intended.
____________

Not to be contrary (okay... maybe a little), but just 'cause there is an AHA experience, which I agree Happy probably had, doesn't mean there is any significant critical thought involved. Similarly, "George & Gracie" problems where we "AHA! they must be fish!" or "AHA! the cabin on the mountain is a PLANE cabin that crashed there" produces a similar experience, and yet again, no significant critical thought.
____________

If by "obviously left-brained" you mean "requires critical thought", well... then... of course, that's exactly what I am talking about.
____________

And to be sure, one can find a plethora (another word of the day) of people who like any kind of problem... even mind-numbing silliness that requires no significant critical thought. (Heck, there are even people who sit and stare at MTV all day.)

Brian Smith
2003-09-18 15:06:04
Re: I propose a new problem category...

Other than "absolutely no critical thought at all", what would the problems in this new category have in common?

SilverKnight
2003-09-18 15:28:49
Re: I propose a new problem category...

isn't that enough? ;-)

Gamer
2003-09-18 17:18:24
Re: I propose a new problem category...

In my opinion, we can always stick one of those problems in another catergory. It seems only problems that don't have a catergory and are piling up would do well to find a new catergory.

I don't think comparing flooble problems to lateral-thinking problems is a good idea because lateral-thinking problems aren't allowed here.

Sam
2003-09-18 20:20:28
Re: I propose a new problem category...

Problems where the answers come from "Aha! Maybe George & Gracie are fish" or "Aha! Maybe it's a plane" or, often, "Aha! Ice must be involved," had always been told to me under the general heading of Minute Mysteries. I personally have the same reaction to you, since a) the answer could always be one of two hundred things, but that the same time b) once you realise the sort of brain that is behind them the answer is usually quite easy. My question is why don't we stick all these under the heading Minute Mysteries, since we're looking for a more specific category name. (A more defined definition for these puzzles could be "could you list more than 437 possible answers to your question?)

Otherwise just ban the lot of them as Gamer suggests. Start with anything involving ice.

SilverKnight
2003-09-18 20:49:17
Re: I propose a new problem category...

Sam: LOL!

P.S. The cabin one is ON FLOOBLE and so is the the "George and Gracie"problem. And this cops and robbers is another perfect example...

And Sam... here's an ice one, and here's <A HREF=\"http://flooble.com/perplexus/show.php?pid=429\"another ice
Gamer... what do you mean these aren't allowed here?

SilverKnight
2003-09-18 20:50:00
Re: I propose a new problem category...

whoops... maybe Levik can correct the previous post/typo for me... (and delete this one at the same time...)

Gamer
2003-09-18 21:23:42
Re: I propose a new problem category...

Oh, I forgot, you aren't a journeyman so you might not know about the reasons I heard there recently.

We haven't passed many new lateral-thinking problems recently because they don't qualify as the sort of problems we want. (Sam's two reasons are approximately why) I don't know how the old problems were passed, not being a journeyman at the time they were passed (maybe some knowledgible scholar like TomM knows why) but I have seen that the consensus of these problems (including the severed arm one) was that they got TD because they were lateral thinking problems. If you look at the pid of them, you will notice they were submitted early on to the site. Over 500 problems were submitted between when the last lateral thinking problem you listed went on the site and now.

I don't think people think the lateral-thinking problems (some of them at least) are bad problems, but they are just not what flooble is after.

SilverKnight
2003-09-19 01:29:15
Re: I propose a new problem category...

Y'know... you Journeymen (and Levik) are some of the most PC muther#$@#~@# I've ever met. (I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.)

abc
2003-09-19 11:24:11
Re: I propose a new problem category...

SK, are you sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful? 8)

The Old MacDonald sequence makes sense. Sure, you could come up with another sequence, but you would still have to match it up with a song, wouldn't you?

There was another sequences puzzle submitted a week ago which featured letter-to-numbers (still isn't solved by the way). Why does this one require more critical thought than the Old MacDonald? I'm not implying that the latter puzzle is bad. Personally, I enjoyed both of them.
The only problem I have with Old MacDonald is, that it's not a difficulty-4-problem.

SilverKnight
2003-09-19 12:03:59
Re: I propose a new problem category...

Sarcastic.... very sarcastic... with a little facetiousness thrown in there.

I hope no one takes me so seriously that he gets offended or interprets it as disrespect.... (Of course... if one does... eh)
___________

yeah... the Old MacDonald sequence matched the song... like a typical Karaoke singer matches the song he's singin'. And I don't know to which problem you are referring (that perhaps required critical thought). But if it required no critical thought too, then it could also go the way of the dodo.

Alan
2003-09-19 18:59:30
Re: I propose a new problem category...

SK I don't care if you're sarcastic ro what not. Just stop beoing an asshole. seriously. I might as well come out and say it. Let me say this ONE simple thing. If you don't like the way this site is being run leave. Plain and simple. If you want to continue to act this way then I'm sure levik will be more than happy to ban your I.P and any accounts you open and this one to. O yeah In case you say this.
silverknight said "I hope no one takes me so seriously that he gets offended or interprets it as disrespect.... (Of course... if one does... eh)"
you think that clears you from calling us motherfukkers? No it doesn't. You can either shape up or shut up.

Gamer
2003-09-19 19:28:26
Re: I propose a new problem category...

I personally don't understand why you would say something like that out of context... Even when you are not on as good footing as others (this was on a "these are bad problems" thread)

It is a great skill to say things in a nicer way, rather than "Gamer, what do you mean???" you could say "I don't understand how lateral thinking problems are being filtered. I found a few problems which I would consider lateral thinking, but they are on the site. Can you explain more fully your reasons?"

I personally am very lacking in that skill, but I see it and appreciate it in others, and it adds one mark under "good person"

Although I wouldn't tell you to take a hike, maybe a little walk wouldn't hurt... :)

SilverKnight
2003-09-20 04:00:25
Re: I propose a new problem category...

Alan,

In context, I called you guys PC (as in politically correct). The "muther#$@#~@#" was added for emphasis.

Of course, in the future, I will definitely refrain from referring to you as PC.

As far as your assumption that I don't like the way the site is run, you couldn't be more wrong. The site is well run, and (from what I've seen) the best of its kind on the net--by far. I appreciate Levik's comments and quick responses very much, and he has been very helpful.

And frankly, so have most of the journeymen (and other community members).

Of course Levik can ban my IP or my account or any such thing... he could always do that... to anyone. Is there any other obviousness you wish to spout?

(Gamer, point taken, and I hope you'll continue to forgive my lapses into coarseness.)

Alan, I make my attempts to provide helpful suggestions, and I do so, often sarcastically. I generally do so to see of whom I can easily get a rise. Enough said ;-)

levik
2003-09-20 11:00:32
Re: I propose a new problem category...

OK, let's everyone take a deep breath :)

Nobody is getting banned, but let's all remember that we're grownups here, and as such there's no need to add words like "motherfuckers" or "asshole" for emphasis.

As to the charge of being politically correct, I refer you to the fact that with 679 problems live on the site (from the statistics page), the ID of the latest problem is 1359. If you do some quick math here, you'll realize that this means MORE THAN HALF (by a margin of one) the problems that got submitted didn't pass muster. So don't think we don't vote out problems that don't belong. But when we do, we sure don't say to people "That's a dumb problem and you're dumn for having submitted it" - if that makes us PC, than maybe it's not such a bad thing. Kinda helps retain users if nobody feels insulted for being new and uninformed.

As far as the existing lateral thinking problems they're primarily the reason why no more are being accepted - we saw that such problems don't work well in the context of a web site where you can't ask clarifying questions.

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