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This is a place to ask questions about math terminology, and to post links to other resources out on the web.
Gamer
2003-04-21 14:07:31
Plurals as restrictions?

I always thought if plurals were used, the answer couldn't be one.

For example: I have 10 apples. I want to put some apples in one barrel and some apples in another barrel so that the product of apples in barrels is the least possible.

The answer can't be 0 (of course) or 1x9=9, because I said "some apples" and 1 apple isn't apples.

I wasn't going to ask about this, but many problems are including such a solution, and wondered if the problem creators didn't want such a restriction on the problem.

Cory Taylor
2003-04-21 16:37:32
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

From my logic course about a decade ago, the word "some" implies at least one, which of course includes one. Strict English however has another opinion. I believe that the answer to your question is dependant on the situation, but that generally speaking, for logic problems, "some" doesn't exclude the possibility of a or an.

Tim Axoy
2003-04-22 10:07:19
Some 1's?

Would you like some 1's?

Gamer
2003-04-22 11:11:46
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

No, I don't mean some indicates plural... I mean APPLES instead of apple... If a plural noun was used, would the solution have to be plural.

Cory Taylor
2003-04-22 13:01:38
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

OK, I missed the subtlety here. In logical deduction, saying that some A are B or other such comments mean at least 1 A are B. I think to leave that behind and travel into the world of strict English, (and I most certainly vcould be wrong here - I don't have a dictionary to check this and its something my parents taught me when I was a kid) doesn't a "couple" mean 2, a "few" mean 3 and "some" mean 4 or more?

All aside, without a more precisely worded question, I would have to agree with you that when you put apples (without the word some) into a barrel then you've put at least 2 there. Maybe we have a Language guru hangin around who is infinitely more qualified than I to answer this (could you tell by my poor grammar??).

fwaff
2003-04-22 22:28:55
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

In the absence of a language guru I suggest that you use sheep. That way your problem becomes:

I have 10 sheep. I want to put some sheep in one barrel and some sheep in another barrel so that the product of sheep in barrels is the least possible.

An alternative wording to eliminate 'some':

I have 10 sheep and 2 barrels. I want to put sheep in each of the barrels such that the product of sheep in barrels is the least possible.

Hmmm... you may also want to use fields instead of barrels!

levik
2003-04-23 05:43:40
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

Personally, I think it depends on the context.

For me, saying "some people got on the bus" means that more than one person got on the bus.

On the other hand, if i hear "some of the people on the bus got off", i would not exclude the possibility of only 1 person getting off.

Tim Axoy
2003-04-23 05:45:05
Some cars

Some cars rattle.
My car is some car.
No wonder my car rattles!

Ravi Raja
2003-04-23 08:44:02
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

Well is there any point in discussing these anymore, that too here in the forums ? I mean the users are going to post their problems as they do. Then we can post our doubts (whatever we are discussing here), but related to that particular problem's wordings/grammar, before voting for their problems. I mean by leaving a Note as we generally do while voting them. Since there are many such words and sentences that come up with such ambiguity and everything cannot be cleared just by going on discussing such things in the forums. So it would be better we should comment only on those particular lines of the problems in the Queue which are not clear to us, so that the problem is framed properly before being pushed up on the site.
That was just my point of view regarding these discussions. If I am wrong then you all can surely continue with your discussions here in the forums.
Thank You.

Charlie
2003-04-25 16:12:52
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

Ravi, please see my note on Professor and Students. It has three thumbs up, so could be posted soon, but has this ambiguity as to whether "years" implies more than one year.

Ravi Raja
2003-04-26 04:08:34
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

Yes Charlie, obviously 'yearS' does imply more than 1 "YEAR".

Charlie
2003-04-26 09:44:11
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

Yet no one would phrase a question "how many years or year have you been ...". One is a valid answer to how many years one has been doing something, or how many years old someone is, etc.

Gamer
2003-04-26 13:39:06
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

How many year isn't correct period, since if you know 1 year you wouldn't need to ask the question. Maybe that's why we don't say it that way... but you did bring up a good point Charlie :)

Ravi Raja
2003-04-27 04:17:02
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

I just don't understand what I am supposed to do. I mean what changes I am supposed to make in the problem (Professor and Students) which is there in the queue. Bryan is asking for one change and Charlie for something else. Levik Please help me out with this problem (changes in the problem). You can go through its solution and then push the problem up on the site.

Ravi Raja
2003-04-27 04:17:28
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

I just don't understand what I am supposed to do. I mean what changes I am supposed to make in the problem (Professor and Students) which is there in the queue. Bryan is asking for one change and Charlie for something else. Levik Please help me out with this problem (changes in the problem). You can go through its solution and then push the problem up on the site.

Alan
2003-04-27 06:12:15
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

Here's is by far the simplest thing to do. year/years. When we speak we can say "year or years" if we're explaining a problem but when it is written it is done like this.

Ravi Raja
2003-04-28 01:17:24
Re: Plurals as restrictions?

It's alright Alan. I've changed the problem myself and now there's nothing wrong with it. It's all done.

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